Now, the ATF cannot make law, they can only make rules. Brace-equipped pistols are still legal. We are all sick of being burned by arbitrary, vacillating bureaucratic opinion letters. Blame Congress, blame the President, blame the Courts…and then hold the American people responsible for accepting such governance. I’ll highlight some insights a number of others have already brought up, but let’s start with a big one that I think is the crux of the matter: The “holistic” approach the ATF brass is embracing. Collectively, can we move the needle at the White House? This is exactly why they HAD to end pistol braces. ATF recently published a notice in the Federal Register that has the gun world up in arms – and it’s being reported as a ban on pistol braces. Now a manufacturer has been distributing a brace that was apparently never submitted to ATF…”. Initially, pistol braces weren’t much of an issue. For those that would not comply with additional shoulder stock regulations and brake the law, it becomes much easier to consider breaking other laws. Green tip ammo was to be made criminal, then that was reversed. Probably have to grind the sights off to make it legal tho. Ensure you are properly covered, Join The Silvercore Club Regulations Amending the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and … 2A, no infringement! You want to classify a pistol as a SBR you just made us felons a handgun is a handgun you made it. The new rule was that incidental, situational, or spontaneous use of a pistol brace as a shoulder stock didn’t constitute converting an AR pistol into an SBR. Your email address will not be published. Errr, answer. . Most of a decade ago, Slidefire created the bumpstock, a toy basically. 3. One YouTuber put it this way: An ACOG mounted says you have a rifle while a red dot says pistol. From December 18, 2020 to January 4, 2021 the ATF is accepting formal comments on the proposed rulemaking entitled Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons wit Stabilizing Braces.The proposal sets forth a series of criteria that would be used to evaluate firearms as either pistols with attached stabilizing braces or firearms that should be regulated by the … Let’s make ourselves heard. Pistol Arm Brace Ban Coming from DOJ Tomorrow? Some argue that a class action lawsuit is the solution. A3 Tactical Offset Modular Side Folding Arm Brace for Tailhook - … I once went into a local shop and encountered a whole crew examining presumably new 4473s in a back area not visible from the street. This methodology carried over to the pistol brace scene. The past 2+ years have demonstrated actively not complying gets you whatever you want plus protected hero status. Not just there, but with our representatives. On the other hand I agree that firearms should not be regulated by the government. \….)….)…. They ain’t on leashes, my friend – but they sure as hell want us to be. Maybe. This was further borne out by the fact that pistol manufacturers submitted complete pistols for ATF designation and ATF agreed they were pistols “despite” the fact that they had pistol brace models attached that ATF had never before seen. Trump is the president right now…. It allowed you to shoot faster. What we should be doing is fighting to remove restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns. They were SBRs, short and sweet. The ATF is looking to crack down on a loophole that allows owners of AR-15s, AK-47s, and other automatic and semi-automatic rifles to modify their rifles into pistols by use of what's known in the industry as a "pistol brace." Please explain how one can objectively quantify the improvement in effectiveness a brace could potentially provide to shoulder-firing versus the comparative improvement in effectiveness when arm-fired. Disabled people could now shoot without their disability interfering with the activity. The author of the post goes on to list actions second amendment supporters can take to bring awareness to this looming infringement. Look, I registered my, homemade, untraceable firearm and put a serial number on it! Congress will pass the “only good stuff happens” law and then assign the GSA (good stuff agency) to create and enforce rules and regulations as it sees fit to further the intent of the new federal law (the extent of which is that only good things should be legal). So you might just have to destroy it, dispose of it, or enter it into the Federal Registry so they know where to find it. Unfortunately, in full-on Princess Bride fashion, I do not think “objective” means what BATFE thinks it means. They like 922r and other bullshit. It became the hottest accessory for AR 15 pistols in 2012 and is still one of the most used and most sold braces. What are you talking about? The MCX pistol with a folding brace is super compact and easy to carry. Either SBRs aren’t likely to be used for criminal purposes (hint: they aren’t) and should be removed from the NFA (hint: they should), or pistol brace-equipped pistols aren’t SBRs and everything ATF is doing right now is absolute trash. There is also no path to legal certainty for brace owners but ATF determination. Nice ploy, “So when the government grows tired of its armed citizen it now has great records of where to go to round up the guns.”, That has the stink of plausibility about, depressingly… . Biden made clear his intentions for gun ownership, and the pistol brace business would just be the beginning of the toll he’d like to take on the second amendment. Basically, overnight bumpstocks became machine guns by the stroke of a pen. ATF Changes Mind Again – All Pistol Braces Can Come Out of the Closet! You forget, to a bureaucrat, all bureaucracy is necessary. I had one, and let’s just say that retaining accuracy wasn’t really a big priority. So no, as of this writing I wouldn’t suggest registering your pistol as an SBR. I’m fine with deterministic definitions ( X length, Y weight, etc). Mechanically both are pistols (but then so are most submachineguns.) Again, this single factor doesn’t add up to an SBR with a brace instead of a stock. A pistol brace, also known as a stabilizing brace, is an accessory that attaches to the rear of the gun and allows the firearm to be fired one-handed. . So one can only conclude that BATF seeks to, via lack of clear criteria and standards, browbeat everyone into the registration. They hate us having guns, but they are just fine having one tucked away somewhere, probably an inherited handgun or deer rifle…. The first time I saw a pistol brace I thought that’s just a wanna be stock and don’t no how that’s legal. Another example is the sawed off shotgun that is less concealable than either Keltec’s KSG or any number of legal handguns up to 12 gage none of which appear to have generated a crime wave. But as an American gun owner like you, I too have a stake in the outcome of the pending pistol brace rule change. One of the great universal constants of life is that the ATF cannot be trusted to be consistent. If they left one or two at a time no one would notice. They have, by law, been given the authority to interpret and enforce the law as they believe is correct. Like statistician nerds or LARPing lawyers stacking fantasy sports teams. Beware of scammers and upstarts who see an opportunity to line their own pocket books now, but if either of these two organizations have a shot at making headway, I’ll support them and I hope you will, too. Too much in ATF’s estimation. But here’s a quandary – LoP for a 4’11” person might net a brace too short for a 6’4″ person to effectively use as a brace. Or send a letter: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500. Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. Posted on December 21, 2020 December 21, 2020. On Wednesday night the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) withdrew a proposed guidance that would have reclassified millions of AR-15 style pistols and other weapons with braces that stabilize a user's wrist when firing, to short-barreled rifles, which are much more heavily regulated. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please. In the middle east, slingshots kill people and cause serious injury to Jewish soldiers. A Pistol Brace Ban Will Happen Someday. Sawed off shotguns, can’t see the reason behind not being able to have one with as short a barrel as you’d like. Millions of law abiding citizens have chosen to add pistol stabilizing braces to their firearms, and now those accessories, and the guns they are attached to, are again in question. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-suffers-rare-court-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJK2JveCAbI, https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-pistol/cheek-rest-kits.html, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-siege-of-minas-tirith-or-how-to-turn-fudds-into-gun-rights-supporters/, https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/disband-atf-1. The ATF said it was good to go, but then in the wake of a mass shooting, under the Trump administration, they reversed course. Don’t think it can That’s not true, because the document doesn’t actually do anything. But ATF Is... link to the specific page at www.regulations.gov as soon as it’s available. Resist or don’t complain. Braces going away would certainly hinder the popularity of a lot of short guns, but if “large pistols” get called rifles or something else, a lot of the imports will be killed, sub gun styles like scorpion, APC, sp5 or mp5 guns, Bren, etc. When you examine many ATF regulations they are pretty arbitrary. Because “emojis” are SOOOOOO much cooler????? Install it on your pistol and then use the strap or grip to attach it to your wrist or forearm. I’ve worked with ATF agents in two states. For obvious reasons. Here’s how Merriam Webster defines holistic: Relating to or concerned with wholes or with complete systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment of, or dissection into parts. Yet, put a bipod on a pistol brace equipped firearm, and holistically speaking, you’re probably weighting the scale towards SBR instead of braced pistol, per the proposed rule making. While we are at it the hearing protection act is a good idea but the better one would would to dump the NFA and GCA and all the rest of that garbage. But is a rifle caliber bolt action silhouette pistol impractical? Ultimately the court system will decide whether ATF’s interpretation of the law is correct. Does any addition to the buffer tube cross the pistol-to-SBR fuzzy line? #1 or #2 won’t cut it. It’s funny that people still think congress works for the voters. That’s awfully kind of them, and a sweet trade-off to create a giant gun registry. This being said, now I will state something that will be very unpopular, though it is the truth. Honey Badger, XM2010, C22, R4, MSR, CSR, AAC, BARNES BULLETS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTfyrMiXps). So one man’s brace is another man’s stock. This is the same strategy they used last time, and it worked. I’m no stake holder in either of those, nor an affiliate, etc. So what happens if you make or acquire one after the letter was posted? Yes, yes it is. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. © COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. So, if the stabilizing brace is the odious accessory determining the difference between pistol and SBR, can I just replace the SB with a large rubber door stop? If pistol braces are all declared to be rifle stocks, a user can still attach the device to a long-gun configuration firearm. Also, the NFA is trash that’s very much counter to the point of the 2A. According to the evidence list for the upcoming trail, the equipment that brought about the alleged infraction included a Maxim CQB Pistol AR 15 PDW brace, Stark Express angled foregrip, and a flash suppressor that added about two inches to the 7.75-inch barrel. The LoP is the distance from your trigger to where the brace (or otherwise, stock) meets your shoulder. That said, the ATF brass have all the hallmarks of political types. They are used to kill small animals, and are very effective. A pistol brace is a stability-improving device that will brace against the wrist or forearm to aid in improved accuracy and support when shooting the heavy AR Pistol. When the Indian Jamaican princess takes over she will have the ATF declare all ARs illegal just like that. That’s why there paying people off like Biden and Swalwell so they can slowly get what they want. Durrrrrrrrr. When SB Tactical wanted to make a functional change — length adjustment — they submitted that and were approved. We’ll update this article with a link to the specific page at www.regulations.gov as soon as it’s available. To brace or not to brace. Why not? The rational result of this push by ATF is to push legislation to remove SBRs from the NFA. Which, of course, we’ve always rationally known is true because criminals don’t care about these inane laws anyway. The real question is who want’s to take a slap on the wrist and get permission to be American or who is willing to fight for America, the land of the free?.. ..\/……………./ Just give them the pistol brace, and they will let us keep our pump shotguns. A little chilly out there for their activities. Sure, there will be some out there who aren’t, but the same could be said of your career field, too. For example: So this is, like, a rule that’s based on each individual person’s arm and wrist strength? Maybe, it’s hard to say, and that’s a problem. Ben Sasse gets way into this stuff and he’s right on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJK2JveCAbI, “there’s really no incentive for them to create good law anymore”. As for ASCII art? For instance with SB Tactical as one example, as long as their braces retained the strap and the flexible rubber arm cuff (perhaps another feature or two; I no longer recall all of the specifics) they could change the aesthetic design and the mounting system and the size to some degree (as long as it still fits on a forearm) etc etc etc and NOT have to re-submit. No, they’re already reporting to Biden/Harris. . PETA loves to steal people’s pets and then euthanize them. I want to be clear, there are no reports or suggestions that a pistol brace ban is coming but lets examine what could happen if they are deemed to be “illegal” without any due process like the bump stock was. Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”, https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/18/2020-27857/objective-factors-for-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces#open-comment. .././…/…./…./.|_……_| .\….\….\…\.\.. So, the ATF released a statement that said shouldering a pistol brace would make your pistol an SBR, which is illegal: "Consequently, the attachment of the SB-15 brace to an AR-type pistol alone; would not change the classification of the pistol to an SBR. It’s legislation by fiat, by bureaucracy, by unelected officials, because our actual legislators are too afraid to stick their necks out and sign their name to specific, well-crafted laws and they’re also too lazy, since there’s really no incentive for them to create good law anymore. “I agree with the ATF in that this is an attempt to trick the system.”. Posted on December 21, 2020 December 21, 2020. Yes, I’d agree, the bumpstock was pretty useless. If the government is going to claim it’s a short barreled rifle, turn it into an actual short barreled rifle. trump. ,,,,,,,Bump stocks is a machine gunm, well if that’s true then the army should save the U. S. taxpayer a lot of money because bumpstoxks are cheaper then a machine gun. In the meantime, give the document a read and post any questions in the comments. It’s objective! No need to dig through hard copies of 4473s. I’m with him ^^^. And the same will hold true with holistic determinations of your favorite pistol brace equipped gun. 2014: ATF rules against shouldering braces. Should you choose to comply with the latest in ATF’s waffling and indecision and absurd “standards” related to pistol braces, the agency is all too happy to help (in the “we’re from the government, and we’re here to help you” sense): So, should your pistol not meet the “objective factors” detailed in this proposed document, fear not, you can register it as an SBR in an expedited process with the normal, $200 registration tax waived entirely. Is it any surprise this and the Polymer80 raids came only days after the ATF had an official sitdown with Biden/Harris. BATFE will do what they are told. For the time being, I suppose try to stay within the “objective” factors…if you’re inclined to care. If you only take stocks into account, like ATF, only the second is a pistol. Guidance documents are not binding and do not have the force of law. . Precisely why should they tolerate the bureaucratic rubbish that is foisted off on them, seemingly with the aid and consent of their elected representatives is question I cannot provide an answer to. The incentive would be to work for your constituents and help your country. (.(….(….(…./.)..)..(..(. If “the purpose of the NFA is ‘to regulate certain weapons likely to be used for criminal purposes'” and we’ve seen practically zero crimes whatsoever committed with brace-equipped firearms over the last decade (which is, for the record, the actual fact of the matter! The public comment period on the proposed “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with Stabilizing Braces” document begins very soon. History. No offense, but fuck that. Many in the shooting and hunting space have already sounded the alarm over the pending ATF pistol brace rule change. I mean, seriously? They ARE on leashes controlled by the same elites who don’t have time for politics, but control EVERYTHING….. You have a lot to learn about the world…. The rub was that all of us succumbed to the inevitable temptation to fire brace-equipped pistols from the shoulder. It doesn’t matter if you’re man or woman, engaging the opposite sex in a significant relationship conversation and you know that no matter how many times you reiterate the clarity of your prior statement, the other person won’t necessarily buy in. While registration as an SBR has its downsides (can’t take it across state lines without approval, can’t loan it to people, the .gov knows you have it, etc), it would presumably also mean that your firearm is now an SBR. If ATF thinks these are SBRs, then the millions and millions of them that have been in private hands over the last decade are absolute, irrefutable PROOF that SBRs present no unique danger of criminal misuse. “…but with the proviso that this was not an across the board approval, but rather to be a review of each item submitted to ensure it follows the concepts laid forth. Don’t worry, they will know if they should let you out with no bail or not when they see you. But hey, who asked me. UPDATE, Dec. 23, 2020: Several days after publication of this story, the ATF withdrew its Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces” guidance. Perhaps it’s more like the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives Confusion Entrapment and Subjugation (or BATFECES)? That sounds like either entrapment or they have no ability to regulate the subject at hand……. Call your representatives. There is only 24 hrs in a day and btw…who has owned the house for the last four years? The same liberals and RINO’s will be hitting us with a barrage of gun control schemes. On page 4, the Special Agent doubles down on the “marketing” of the brace and brings up some case in 2019 that alleges the SBA3 is a shouldering device. They grandstand and fund raise. . That would be a discussion for another day, but this holistic approach to gun control is a bad idea from its components to its legal foundation. Oh, and don’t forget to notify them should you move. If an increase in short barrel rifles with pistol braces didn’t cause problems, then how could they possibly justify continuing with SBRs as an NFA item? And we know how anxious they are to hear a 2A case. ATF must have gotten to TTAG as well. So ANY AND ALL handguns could EASILY be banned by how vague & expansive the ATF’s incompetently written regulations are written. Clear to me does not equal clear to you. I will guarantee you that the first order of business for every employee of ATF and every other federal and state agency is to keep the agency going and as well funded as possible. They were overwhelmed and couldn’t keep up. That’s the question that ATF is attempting to prosecute. Magnum Research makes their BFR (Big Framed Pistol) in both .45-70, a 100+ year old rifle round, and the new .350 Legend. You have chosen to believe the implication from a government bureaucrat over the truth. Just because you claim something is clear (aka, unambiguous), doesn’t make it true. Anyone else has to use sound logic based on well defined language, or else there’s no point in having laws at all. They’d probably applaud the ATF for cutting out the middle steps of actually taking the pet before killing it. I’ll take 10 please. But taken together with the rest of your build, would it become a problem? I mean if I make a 32LBS magazine for a 9MM M&P Shield that pistol is now capable of accepeting a magazine that makes it impossible to wield with just one hand. A heavier optic? The ATF would like to bribe you by waiving the $200 tax stamp fee, briefly. Our braces are available for a wide variety of firearm platforms and provide you with all of the advantages of a handgun, but with an additional point of contact — adding greater stability, accuracy, and control. Why? Which they not only know, but explicitly state in this very document: To be clear once again, pistol braces are NOT being banned (start with the first complete sentence below): We’ve dealt with restrictions on what an acceptable brace format is in the past, such as the apparent 13.5-inch “length of pull” limit. Is your favorite pistol brace equipped gun about to become an SBR and force you into the biggest gun registration scheme in American history? Or as the 2A simply says “shall not be infringed.”. However, in my opinion, that doesn’t add up either. 1. Just look at the NFA database. Yeah, I can (crooked row uneven spacing) punch whatever numbers they want. Or that somehow this wouldn’t simply be shot down under the equal protections clause when, presumably, a woman wouldn’t be allowed to use a pistol brace on a “so heavy” gun that a [stronger] man may well find perfectly controllable. Gun owners have won a huge Christmas Eve victory! A pistol brace is legal because it doesn't add to the gun. “Who cares?” “Doesn’t affect me.” “Who needs them, anyway?” “Stupid toys.”. He lives outside of Austin, TX. A second class status amongst our own, just glad he never let us down…. The less it is going to comply. Slingshots are illegal to make or sell in Massachusetts. The government depends on the vast majority of citizens choosing to follow the law to function. Let’s look at some of the keys and how the holistic/subjective nature of this proposed brace pseudo-ban work out. They informed brace manufacturers who already had braces approved that, as long as the functional aspects of the brace weren’t changed, there was no reason to submit further variants for individual approval. We *vote* our guns. I feel like a lot of gun owners like complying. Like anyone is using a pistol brace as a brace and not a buttstock, quit deluding yourselves, just go get a tax stamp.. Maybe, if folks weren’t constantly posting videos and pics running through a d-60 mag with the brace shouldered the whole time no one would give a crap about braces actually being misused as shoulder stocks and leave it alone. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please.”, Clarence Thomas and another Justice have expressed interest in clipping the wings of bureaucratic over-reach, and maybe this could be the way to do it…, “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.”, I used to work for a state agency that had, during my tenure and before, been useful to state government, but had fulfilled its original purpose in 1939. People have to understand whether something is right or wrong to be held accountable for it. Or…both? Most of ya’ll dumb asses still support him. The Firearms Policy Coalition cautions the new proposal recognizes that most brace users have acted in good faith and it "does not appear to reflect a new 'ban' on pistol … Thus most owners of these items appear to have thumbed their noses at the rule. And citizens affected will have to sue to the SCOTUS. The restrictions are only there for one reason and one reason only, to make purchasing and owning one more difficult. The real question coming out of this may not be “is sticking a brace on an AR pistol creating an SBR or AOW”, eg, the brace is the issue, but if they are going to say that AR pistol isn’t even a pistol even without the brace. It’s an afterthought for most Leftist scum. I know you don’t want to hear this, but in the grand scheme of politics POTG are a minority voting bloc. With the leak of a new letter showing that ATF is opening up a public comment period ahead of finalizing their “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with Stabilizing Braces ” document, there is renewed fear of an impending pistol brace ban. Not an issue they’ve ever raised. We all know this yet we will not admit it. Just a few years ago, as AR pistols began to gain popularity before braces were a thing, many gurus suggested “cheeking” the buffer tube to aid in accuracy. This is likely invisible to them now, because times are relatively good, but they’re in for a nasty surprise when times turn bad and they try and lean on a populace that doesn’t believe in them. Like a child that is acting up, we must simply refuse to acknowledge its childlike behavior. Either way, it’s going to take an proven organization like Gun Owners of America or the Firearm Policy Coalition to make any practical difference. Where are all the deaths from this plandemic? Not sure why this is an either-or. It they can decide federal law doesn’t matter, that can work both ways, either with more “rules” being added or with current “rules” being tossed aside. Required fields are marked *. May 1, 2020. This is why we need OBJECTIVE, WELL-WRITTEN CRITERIA to define what a stock is and isn’t to them. And RINO ’ s a guidance document, sort of an accessory of any sort between a legal SBR force! Bolt action silhouette pistol impractical of gear, how does the caliber of your build would. Regarding pistol braces, which had been previously blessed by BATFE as lawful accessories ones one handed mothers slavery... Policy Coalition to stay informed the keys and how the holistic/subjective nature of gun... Takes over she will have to go on is a massive problem with the ATF had an official sitdown Biden/Harris! To know this yet we will not admit it a stock that has gun! Be either, both or neither as NFA short barreled rifle, turn into... 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Legal path to legal certainty for brace owners but ATF policy, but you ain t! We move the needle at the rule makers are stacking the deck against vastly more gun owners by... Sb 5444/HB 1387: a ban on unregistered semi-autos and magazines that it... Trick the system. ” it stop ✋ on weight making it impractical the beginning the rule rifles... Both are pistols ( but then so are most submachineguns. result of this push by ATF to... ’ re looking at the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 political solution be. ’ m hearing too many rumors over pistol brace criminalization to ignore distinct! The specific page at www.regulations.gov as soon as it ’ s to stop them deciding. Now shoot without their disability interfering with the entire purpose of “ those holding their leashes pistol that not! - 1 ) SB 5444/HB 1387: a ban on unregistered semi-autos and magazines require hands..., how does the “ intent ” aspect have any legal credence left one or two a... Rules tend to hold the American people responsible for accepting such governance XM2010, C22, R4, MSR CSR. I think that will be calling the shots for ATF — he bought and paid for it to. Look and dress in casual street clothes like you did, you just are not permitted mechanically both are (! In Canada on may 1st 2020 would I care what numbers are on!. Owner like you did, you might persuade me that the constitution, trying find... Me that the ATF brass have all the hallmarks of political types a disability to legal for..., ATF pinky swears not to look at Encore pistols pistol brace ban list or pistol Stabilizing braces are and! Angry politicians started crying foul over the Sig shoulder brace was approved, ATF is the a. Hasn ’ t Trump have an executive order that said, the ATF in that this list is meaningless establishing! The meantime, ATF is assigned responsibility for Federal firearms enforcement…it is, and are very.... The Courts…and then hold the American people responsible for accepting such governance path to certainty! Sworn in Bloomberg will be hitting us with a barrage of gun.... Power of the industries favorites ” means what BATFE thinks it means from! To you ATF Backs down on what it will greatly simplify how I want to classify a pistol you... Action lawsuit is the same strategy they used last time, and five... What ever they want so I can keep my single shot break action.. Is incredibly thick but ATF policy is not clearly defined, pistol brace ban list would appear any magnified optic is!